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  1. #1
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    WBC3 10325 Unofficial Patch

    Well, here it is WBC 1.03.25 Unofficial Patch

    Here is the short list of changes:

    General
    * Increased stats of tier one flyers (bats, wasps)
    * Increased cost of seige
    * Dragon costs switched around with new resources
    * General changes across units, typically less setup cost and better stats for low level, opposite high
    * Elementals cost different resources
    * Kharns tile set
    * lots of sound fixes
    * Illusion units have full stats but always miss
    * Fixed swiftness on vamperism
    * All generals produced at level 5 keep
    * Temples changed, snake temples make dragons and sides general, celestial and infernal give 2 units depending on side
    * Expanded tool tips explain my detail on special abilities
    * Wizards have 50 more HP, Merchants 50 less
    * Most stats for titans are effectively doubled

    Barbs:
    * Increase cost and build time for reaver
    * Increased cost of Spear of Ank and income upgrades

    Daemons:
    * increased cost for imps and daemons
    * reaper has shadow sound files from wbc2

    Dark Dwarves:
    * Stone golems vulnerable to cold instead of electric
    * Seige craft, Dark Forge and Dark Alchemist upgrades cost increased

    Dark Elves:
    * Kargoth gate and imps buildable at keep 2 (upgrades still keep 4)
    * Dark archers more expensive, Dark riders less and have +20 HP

    Dwarves:
    * Basic infantry/archers cost less, slightly more resistant
    * Dwarven brew more expensive

    Empire
    * Switched Squire and archer model
    * Elephants cheaper
    * Foreign Mercenary cheaper
    * Palace guard and income upgrades more expensive

    Fey
    * Leprechaun Vulnerable to fire
    * Many upgrades linked to keep level
    * Income 4 and keep advancement more expensive

    High Elves
    * Dragon knight buffed
    * Ice Priestess cost increase

    Knights:
    * Archons cheaper, longer build time
    * Knights cost less gold, more metal
    * Crusade upgrades cheaper

    Minotaurs
    * Gnolls cheaper with better stats
    * Minotaur shamans do less damage
    * Dwarven Brew more expensive

    Orcs
    * Goblin Shamans do less damage
    * No Pain! upgrade has large crystal cost added

    Plague Lords
    * Slimes gain pierce resistance
    * Hydras cheaper and count as dragons
    * Ice and fire cave upgrades removed
    * Ghouls tougher to physical damage, less to elemental
    * Virus upgrades cheaper

    Ssrathi
    * can build basilisks
    * Pterodactyls less stats, more cost

    Swarm
    * Hive upgrades cheaper
    * Scorpions resist slashing instead of peircing
    * Level 2 hive can be built at keep 1, can build spiders and spider queens
    * Significant increase to ant stats
    * Bone catapults at keep level 2
    * All buildings give +1 population limit

    Undead
    * Dark mithril cost increased

    Wood Elf
    * Oakmen Buildable ate tree of life keep 1
    * Ancient treants gain increased view, less build time, higher cost
    * Treants gain increased view, less build time
    * Druid Pixie and sprite gain gold cost, but cost less crystal
    * Glade warden gain gold cost and peircing vulnerability
    * Wood Rider cheaper and better stats
    * Bomaster upgrade cost decrease
    * Trade upgrade cost decreased
    * Magic well and white tree costs stone instead of crystal
    * White tree buildable at keep 2, upgrades require keep 4

    Items
    More than can be lited, mostly increases in stats and find chance, as well as many new items

    Bugs
    * A.I. can't build hovels, morters, or supply depots
    * Dragon fear does normal damage
    * Explosive units do not damage targeted unit
    * Hive production increase scorpion preist build time, but not spiders
    * Husk isn't immune to status effects
    * Wraiths and shadows don't float over water

    Please read the inclosed readme for the full change log, this is a VERY condensed list.

  2. #2
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    Oh, a separate thread for this patch. Why did nobody else have the sense to do this?

    One thing I have to bring up right off is the way temples work now - I don't really like the new celestial/infernal temple. The extra units can be situationally useful, depending on your race, but the early research is almost never useful IMO. I mean, I believe the upgrades available to Dark Elves from a celestial temple were the hero casting skill upgrades, which was of course useless to my warrior hero. Temples maybe weren't ideal before, but they almost always offered something you could at least utilize.

    Dragons on snake(dragon) temple is fine (though I haven't actually gotten one of these temples on any generated map yet so I can't comment on how it actually effects gameplay), elemental temple is great with the changed costs, but the celestial and infernal should be changed IMO. I think it'd be pretty cool if the same-aligned temple trained your side's generals, while the opposite-aligned temple trained an opposite-aligned general (well, not exactly opposite-aligned, since the races' alignments are heavily out of balance and neutral doesn't have an opposite - more like the polar opposite/biggest enemy of the race storywise).

    For example:
    High Elves get Blackguards, Dark Elves get Moonguards
    Ssrathi get Mages, Empire gets Naga
    Knights get Vampires, Undead get Inquisitors
    Etc.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyGoat View Post
    Oh, a separate thread for this patch. Why did nobody else have the sense to do this?
    I caught the laziness bug .

    In all seriousness though I was concerned about the framerate problem which some have complained about. It's a bit of a tricky issue since certain laptop users (and even some PC users) can't really play the game very well and I've got no idea how to help other than to just offer the 1.03.24 exe instead .

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyGoat View Post
    One thing I have to bring up right off is the way temples work now - I don't really like the new celestial/infernal temple. The extra units can be situationally useful, depending on your race, but the early research is almost never useful IMO.
    The original idea was to give races access to research they couldn't normally get such as Orcs getting Weaponmaster and Dwarves getting Summon Mana which would've been nice but unfortunately new research icons are set within the source code AFAIK. But yeah the research-based temple's usefulness depends upon what race you are a lot of the time. Elves benefit a lot but races which get access to all their research at the start of the game get little benefit. As you say, perhaps the production of the race's General can be moved from the Dragon Temple to the same-alignment temple. Also, very cool idea with the opposite alignment temple .

    So far as I've played, Dragon Temples seem to be ok. Usually the cost of the Dragons and their build time negates the accessibility of early-game Dragons... but Dragons do really need to be toughened up a bit I think - maybe all they need is a bit more health. At the moment they aren't even remotely worth tech-ing into (or defending a Dragon Temple for).

    Maybe if all this Temple business can be sorted out and the Dragons and Generals get rebalanced properly (amongst other things like Wood Elven Oakmen), I'll put up the changes as a 1.03.26 patch or something .

  4. #4
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    I have a pretty hefty machine, and it was chugging as well at times until I turned particles off. Granted my CPU has relatively weak individual cores (and it's underclocked/downvolted because it handles modern games fine without the extra power consumption/heat) and I assume WBC3 doesn't utilize multiple cores well.

    New researches would be interesting, but once you have researched them holding the temple becomes a moot point - maybe one of the temples could instead cast spells for resources similar to a healing orb/swarm keep/etc.; some short duration buffs to all of your units, or something like the increased production spell in Time magic, etc. So it could be like a research but something that only benefits you as long as you hold the temple (and still has a maintenance fee as well).

    There are a hell of a lot of really cool things you could do with temples, actually. I guess most of them would require source code though.

    Oh, finally got a dragon temple to spawn (actually it was a really cool randomly generated map - it had a sortof circular area with a base in each corner separated by hills with the dragon temple smack dab in the middle) and the early generals were far more impactful than the ability to get a dragon. Though I have to think it'd be really, really strong for some races with the newly changed cost of dragons. I stopped making War Dogs and was able to make a pretty early swamp dragon as Barbarians, since their crystal consumption is nonexistent and without war dogs they only need stone for buildings. Of course it still suffered from the general weakness of dragons for their cost, but when that cost is in resources you don't really need and you don't have to get to tier 5 with a tier 3 eyrie to get it, they're pretty powerful. Elementals would've likely had a bigger impact, though, since they're far more cost efficient.
    Last edited by SlyGoat; 03-28-2014 at 11:17 PM.

  5. #5
    You do need the source code to add or modify research.
    With the import tools in WBC3, we can do it in under 5 minutes... but how to use the tools properly is secret known only to myself, Janeen, and a few ancient monks cloistered in cave somewhere in northern Latvia

    Cheers

    Steve
    I always had something of a monk in me. Now I know.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe the Bartender View Post
    The original idea was to give races access to research they couldn't normally get .

    I've aimed for this exact thing with the latest version of my Quest pack (which has not yet been released) but as most of the "missing skills" for the races could be obtained through generic quests, the researches the races would obtain tend to be minor but specific improvements
    Example: Undead gain the Dark Dwarven skill "Forgotten power 1" which further buffs Wraiths / Shadows.
    Dark Dwarves gain "Dark Mithril" which adds a further +5 damage to all melee units. (All damage skills actually offer only +5, but they all stack which is why Mithrill is stated as adding +15. Armor, on the other hand, only uses what ever is the highest added value, so they can't stack)
    Barbarians gain +20 pop cap / Daemons gain +15 maximum mana / Dwarves gain +4 Morale / Fey gain the Dwarves Engineering skill etc..

    I really should finish off that version, it has been sitting unfinished for quite some time now.

  7. #7
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    Me and psychoak played around a little and the big things we came up with:

    The resource disparity is a little worse than it was, mostly due to generals moving to the keep. Swarm for instance has little to do with crystal outside of upgrades and dragons.

    And we both have gaming computers, and we could not do better than 4 sides (me, him and 2 a.i.) at medium speed before slow down made the game unplayable. The hit to network stability seems high considering what little was changed. We have no problems single player.

    psychoak also seemed put out by empire, something about too much piercing or something. Had something to do with the mages.

    Also, a.i. priority for siege, at least for dwarves/Dark Dwarves need lowered. Being able to mass balista and catapults really screw over some races.

  8. #8
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    Oh, yeah, almost forgot to mention that. Top priority IMO - Mages on tier 5 keep is massively crippling to Empire. Almost ruins them as a race, frankly. Honestly, making White and Red Mages non-generals trained at the library and Black Mage stronger, tier 5 keep general would be an interesting compromise. Losing the uniqueness of 3 generals would kinda suck, but Black Mages have always been really lackluster; they could really benefit from some uniqueness. Give them better spells, too.

    High Elves still seem pretty okay without Moonguard spam, though their lategame is pretty sad. Barbarians are a lot more reliant on cavalry, which is as intended for them I guess. Swarm as mentioned has resource distribution issues. The other races that could spam generals aren't as effected because it wasn't their primary strategy, or was only really used to break a really long stalemate in the case of giants and minotaur kings. Daemons turtling up with summoners and making a daemon farm doesn't work anymore of course, but that was pretty niche to begin with. Inquisitors were never really juggernauts on the battlefield en masse, but I still miss them, they were a crucial part of Knight endgame IMO - Knights have even less diversity in damage type now, and have trouble busting down bases with nerfed catapults/inquisitors and archons still being hella expensive.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleknight View Post
    The resource disparity is a little worse than it was, mostly due to generals moving to the keep. Swarm for instance has little to do with crystal outside of upgrades and dragons.
    Yeah sadly the Swarm aren't quite so good, especially with the Stone-costing Spiders . This one's been complained about before and the general consensus was to decrease or remove the Stone cost of Spiders and give them a Crystal cost (for the Swarm only, Spiders will still cost stone for the Dark Elves), which should help with both problems nicely .

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleknight View Post
    psychoak also seemed put out by empire, something about too much piercing or something. Had something to do with the mages.
    Quote Originally Posted by SlyGoat View Post
    Oh, yeah, almost forgot to mention that. Top priority IMO - Mages on tier 5 keep is massively crippling to Empire. Almost ruins them as a race, frankly. Honestly, making White and Red Mages non-generals trained at the library and Black Mage stronger, tier 5 keep general would be an interesting compromise. Losing the uniqueness of 3 generals would kinda suck, but Black Mages have always been really lackluster; they could really benefit from some uniqueness. Give them better spells, too.
    To try and help with that and to prevent the Empire being Husk and Skeleton rushed, the Foreign Mercenary stuff is a lot more affordable. If that doesn't work very well, we could try something like White Mages available at tier 3 keep, Red Mages available at tier 4 and Black Mages at 5 (or maybe Black>White>Red since the Black Mage's spells aren't great). I wish I could take away conversion skills from units (and give them spells) but it requires the source code again AFAIK .

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyGoat View Post
    Knights have even less diversity in damage type now, and have trouble busting down bases with nerfed catapults/inquisitors and archons still being hella expensive.
    I've honestly not had the base-destruction problem very much, but have had that damage type problem. Someone over on the Wiki suggested that the Knight Champion should have a mace and do Crushing damage and the Knight Lord should do Electrical to try and vary the Knights more, which I thought would be pretty cool . It's sad that the Knight Champion model can't really be edited though.

  10. #10
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    sure it can, just need to use a blue filter on the sword in photoshop...takes maybe 6 hours to do all the frames.

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