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  1. #101
    I find this topic to be quite amusing as it grows in posts. Brings a smile to my face.

    The fact that people are getting so involved in saying what they think is right for the future wbc is just proof of how passionate they are about the series.
    With the import tools in WBC3, we can do it in under 5 minutes... but how to use the tools properly is secret known only to myself, Janeen, and a few ancient monks cloistered in cave somewhere in northern Latvia

    Cheers

    Steve
    I always had something of a monk in me. Now I know.

  2. #102
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    Please stop comparing LoL with a RTS game like WBC. LoL it's totally different game, focused entirely on multiplayer, containing almost no lore or whatsoever (that one page of text won't convince me), it has no well defined story and those heroes or more like thrown in the game randomly. Go compare it with other RTS games, not something of totally other genre. LoL is more like a PvP RPG than strategy. So statements like selling races are idiotic, only acceptable thing that comes close is Dawn of War expansions, where you needed along the exp you were playing also the exp which contained your race, but even that was stupid.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Xenir View Post
    Please stop comparing LoL with a RTS game like WBC. LoL it's totally different game, focused entirely on multiplayer, containing almost no lore or whatsoever (that one page of text won't convince me), it has no well defined story and those heroes or more like thrown in the game randomly. Go compare it with other RTS games, not something of totally other genre. LoL is more like a PvP RPG than strategy. So statements like selling races are idiotic, only acceptable thing that comes close is Dawn of War expansions, where you needed along the exp you were playing also the exp which contained your race, but even that was stupid.
    Well if you read (again people don't read) that idea comes from Age of Empires Online and not from LoL... And agian stop saying ideas are stupid because every bit of information and idea counts. Thing is in the country I live piracy is the most common thing and its a real problem, so a f2p game has more chances of surviving nowadays. I mention LoL because of its success, like it or not they model works and made so much profit that now it can host its own e-sport tournament.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmata View Post
    P3t3rU5, why are you defending race selling, i thought you only wanted to sell skins and stuff? Nobleknight was the one who came up with the race selling. And don't worry about people arguing about ideas, it's completely as it should be. You said it yourself, it's a forum.
    Thing is I'm listening to your ideas AND listening to "your ideas suck", "worst idea prize", "your opinion sucks"... You can argue ideas without personal attacks... from what i know that its called flaming and would not like enter a flame war and call you a troll, I think you can discuss things in peace... I'm not a angel either if I was I would not write a response to you :/

  5. #105
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    worst idea prize
    Oh come on, that wasn't a personal attack.
    your ideas suck
    Dude, relax, i never said that, and i always gave arguments when i was against something.
    that idea comes from Age of Empires Online and not from LoL
    The main thing, it will not work with a new WBC game, at least not with WBC3-like game. My two or three latests posts give reasons why.

  6. #106
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    Not true. Even if so, you still didn't explain it until my comment.
    Errr... word of advise, calling someone a liar without something to back it up is an insult, hence why we keep saying to stop the personal attacks.

    I admit, I played a few games of LoL over a year ago, they might have changed things since then. From what I remember, the sold permanent use of their rotating stable of heroes and cosmetic items. There is a deference between buying new game content like campaigns and races, and buying a new skin. There are different types of F2P models, and what I'm describing is a different model from LoL. LoL doesn't sell mini expansions.

    I didn't explain as it had nothing to do with what I was saying... I also didn't explain nuclear fission or the history of the war of 1812.

    Huh? Nice explanation there.
    Not my fault you don't understand the concept of balance.

    About what two expansions you are talking about? WBC3 had 16 races in the main game, there was no expansion packs. And if there is no difference, why even do it? If no difference, why sell it piece by piece if there is no guarantee the next piece will be purchased? Jesus Christ you yourself pointed out that a game and 2 expansion would be a more profitable system, 110 bucks against 70. Then why are you defensing selling races? <<---- no really, look at this people.
    I know English maybe isn't your original language... but still...

    I'm talking about Mini- expansions... so I'm comparing the cost of a standard expansion to the cost of the smaller ones. New PC games, in the US anyway, come out at about the same price. Expansions in general run about 30 for a decent game.

    As to why? First, Steve isn't a jerk, he likes people playing his games. Second, more people will pay 5-10 dollars for entertainment than 50. These dlc packs would come every month or two, you wouldn't by them all all once typically.

    Oh, thanks for that. Because i was really sad when i purchased WBC3 and there were "races that i didn't like", totally ruined the game for me.
    Congrats on missing the point. Yes, why pay 50 for 16 races, when you can pay 5-20 for the ones you want.

    So why you don't like it if it's "successful and better designed"?
    Business model = method of making money. LoL makes money, it's one of the more profitable F2P games. But I do not like the feel of the game, and how it's promoted. It's not the worst F2P model I've seen... that goes to play to win and the random loot system like the valve lock boxes.

    So what will you sell if everyone is already in the game? If player can travel to Kor and fight Orcs that means Orcs are present in the game even if the player didn't bought them. Nice system you NOT designed there.
    O.K, I'l explain this simply... YOU CAN HAVE ASSETS IN THE GAME NOT UNDER DIRECT CONTROL OF THE PLAYER. Just because you can't select them on the race select screen doesn't mean they wouldn't be in the game.

    What? You can control allied races. I was talking about hero classes. Will they also be locked to races? You bought Orc you received a Shaman, and until then Shaman is locked as a class? Come one dude, "design" further!
    Before we go further... NONE of us are designing anything here except Steve and crew. We are just spit balling idea's, they don't have to be fleshed out. Half finished ideas are actually better since it encourages more ideas.

    And no, while they might be inclined to release a class expansion, I wasn't talking about that. Maybe a sub class system, where you could have some small bonus to a given race. Maybe like a skill where your undead paladin could get resistance against holy damage for undead troops, or maybe 150% damage from archons instead of 200%.

    HOW CAN THE GAME BE COMPLETE IF YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR EACH RACE? HOW CAN THE WHOLE RACE PURCHASE BE A "MINI EXPANSION DLC"? So the two races is now a "base WBC game"? And if races are present in the game for the "plot" and multiplayer, that means those are not expansion DLCs but locked game content.
    Horrible.
    1. The same way you do for any expansion. It's extra content.

    2. Unlocking a race would not be... but a race, new hero skins, new items and new campaign would be.

    3. Some of the greatest of RTS games of all time have had 2-4 races... including the original warcraft, starcraft, command and conquer....

    4. Yes, in background they would be there, but a mini expansion would include many assets like new maps, new skins, maybe even new music.

    Technically any game you pay for is "locked content" by your definition.

    Who cares where you worked before if right now you are doing a lousy job? Also, link please.
    I was referring to time... technically none of us are working right now... none of us are doing a "job" to be good or lousy at.

    Actually it would be. Like, really dude?
    Really, it wouldn't. I've tried it myself, and talked to people that have... if you don't believe me, give it a shot.

    It's not a requirement, but it's always good.
    It is if you want investors.

    he wants with the game. That, that was implied. :rolling eyes:
    You completely missed the "would be fraud" part. I don't know about where your from but kickstarter is based in the US last time I checked, and I2 is in Australia... fraud is frowned upon in both countries

  7. #107
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    Second, more people will pay 5-10 dollars for entertainment than 50. These dlc packs would come every month or two, you wouldn't by them all all once typically.
    Oh God, i can't take it anymore. Look at this people, he wants to sell 14 races as DLC and not even release them at the same time. Oh God... he just wants to have the last word, even if it makes him look like a complete dumbass.
    Some of the greatest of RTS games of all time have had 2-4 races... including the original warcraft, starcraft, command and conquer....
    Oh God, then why do you want to sell more if 2 is enough... contradiction on contradiction, not even trying. Again , he also completely ignores the fact that WBC always had many races.
    fraud is frowned upon in both countries
    What fraud?

    God im so tired reading through your passive-aggressive spits. Change you attitude, or this is the last time i'm responding. I've proved my point already, your last post had 0 (zero) arguments, and i'm afraid i can't argue with someone who doesn't accept logic and thinks that "you are stoopid, i know better" is an argument.

  8. #108
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    You are the one that wanted a "quote" pissing contest.

    But I'm tired of feeding trolls, getting back giving ideas...

    * Proper formations would be nice, if the engine would allow it.

    * Asking a lot, but maybe proper units? Not individuals but groups? Would make control a lot easier.

    * I'd also like to throw my hat into the "gate" ring. I'd love to have gates to use.

    * Changeable terrain, like let plague lords make swamp terrain. And have terrain have an effect, like swamps slowing you down, and deserts slowly draining health unless you have fire resistance.

  9. #109
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    No F2P, I think it simply doesn't fit to the RTS genre. I think it's a horrible idea. Anyway, it's also good to see you guys at I2 are coming back, it hurted deeply to know you got sold to that other company. I really hope you guys get something good going on, it's time for you to participate into the big picture. Tho I think it's the time to start again with the turn based strategy (Thanks to X-com, that proved that the genre wasn't dead, is time for you guys to get a piece of it before everybody and their mothers leech the genre like if it was a FPS)


    Now, not that F2P might not work, but it seems kinda odd, anyway given the place I live, it might be the only possible way I get hold of a pc game.

    Lets start then, I will name things as I really will add them.

    Heroes-
    -Heroes shouldn't go upper than a certain Max lvl, to counther this, lvling should be slow, and every lvl up should really matter. In singleplayer this doesn't matter much, but its to balance heroes-units in the end the heroe wouldn't be a one man army, but damn he will be a good hero. In multiplayer you will only be able to play against heroes of the same lvl as you. How to get experience, I won't discuss that yet.

    -Complex and silly(as in a ton of possibilities) cuztomization, from color of the armor, to the look of it, different pieces clothes, plates, leather etc. I prefer this to rather have your gear to be shown, that way you will look the way you want without messing with your stats. If you go F2P then this will be your only way to get money, so di it big, do it good, and better than you have before.

    -Hero progression in my own mind should be treated as the first WBC, where you created it then you decided what to be, and for the sake of more choices star with types as in you will be a walking melee hero, ranged hero, magical hero, or mounted hero( As a knight player, I want my hero to have his horse). This will result in a more complex system, that will indeed bring more people (Complex doesn't mean difficult or complicated).

    - More items for different lvl, characteristics, and more stats so you have to decide if using a custom lvl XX set is better than a Unique set. And ofcourse clearer ways to get them, by questing, skirmishing, campaing, or even open a market to buy items with ingame currency. I dont remember the Etherian currency, was it Crowns? Anyway, so you let people decide how to build their character and have different options to go with instead of simple have a color level, thats just cheap, and although it has been done and taken as a given here, your level will be the mark of the next tier not blue-green-orange-and all that nonsense. Lets be inventive now.

    - Cap some of the advanced stats like Assasination, crit chance and the like, or the mroe points you invest in them, the least useful they will be. Something to control the heroes that go on a rampage trough the map the moment their owner decides it's time to end the battle. This ofcourse will be controled by caping the heroes lvl, but still more though has to go to this so to expand one hero job, but be versatile enough to do more things.

    -Keep the racial advantages when leading some races, and the malus when leading others, that way you can force having different heroes for different races. Same with the bonus % you can et for using this or that unit, this will make a certain strategy you like more able to overcome different counters that will otherwise stop that certain tactic, but not that good enough that it will be killing everything.

    Resources

    -Since Steve said, we must mention what we want, I will mention everything I want. Now keep the way you gather resources, it was what made WBC more hectic than normal, with faster ways to get resources and it can focus the fight. Single mines should be easier to convert than mines with buildings around them, and the moe that you can convert, the more time you will need to convert. My hero was able to take quiet a piece of the map in terms of enemy building in a matter of seconds. Whic is a great blow to someone base. This willmake building and fortifying around the best mines a must, while leaving the lesser ones as open territory.

    - I will like for the mines to not just go empty? I know it makes sense but cm on, its a video game... please? Atleast give the option? No? Ummm... ok...=(

    Quest:

    More quest, more varied, and related to campaing mission, races on the game,map, and should be totally taken as side quest, recognize them as such. They also should appear after certain events have happened on the game like, 1 lvl 5 keep, or even 4 present on that time. Some hard some easy, basicly go crazy on this things.

    Races:

    Take some or all, I dont care as long as they are more than 4-6, and make them as big and complex as you can, with enough differentiation one form the other, and try to balance them every stage, or atleast 1-2-3 should be capable to take 1-2-3 tier of other races. I know many races will involve a lot more of headaches when balancing, but is that kind of worry for your game that makes it stand out.

    -Do not mix races as someone has stated here, and tough someone told him already it indeed was a dumb idea, I have to admitt again, it is a dumb idea. You indeed take much from the whole story of ETHERIA, not warlords story. On WBC3 you can watch the constant raids the Selentine Empires does on the Agarian kingdom, you can read the hate each elven race has for the other, or Fey "Dont mess with my land" acctitude towards anything. The only races that do cooperate are surprisingly the 2 that keep themselves on constant war The Agarian Knights and the Dwarves (And not the humans, since any Empire has a good relationship with them) and since the 2 dwarves races are kilometers apart from each other, and are different on doctrine and anything. I don't see much going for the factions thing. Thats as silly as suggesting WH40K get united against chaos or something like that. Even the 4 horseman hate each other with a passion, minotaurs will pound Bane skull if they could, just to get their master back. Melkor and Antharg are just happy with their own domains. And humans factions are as messy as they could, the barbarians, empires and kingdoms just keep fighting each other and everything they can jsut because they can, and totally want to. And orcs, minotaurs, dwarves, brbarians, fey and ssrathi all stay where they are and just go out for a fight, and then go back. You gotta admit that a faction thing, even with humans is at best, and stretch of the lore. Could be done, but I indeed fill you will take much of the lore and the feel of playing a race.

    -Basicly just differentiate each from the other and you are done. Knights should be all cavalry and peasants, the empire should be a profesional army, the minotaurs should be minotaurs with a few other beasts in there (And griffons, they were Sarteks creations), dwarves should be dwarvin, and elves elvin.

    Multiplayer:

    Time for a proper multiplayer, with ranking, stats, matchmaking, a good lobby. different modes to choose.

    An Editor, ans maybe support for modders, but they know what to do and where to search if they want to do a proper mod.

    Just go around and see what other games have to offer and take it all.

    Game Modes:

    Campaing: Story driven, with characters and etc. Theres plenty to take out from this but my main idea is this one.

    Involve all the races in the campaing, all should follow a single timeline and all should be cannon(or canon, I really don't remember right now) But ir could be in this possible 2 ways.

    Have a single timeline for each race, and signal what where they doing during a time, where other was resting, or was having a huge fight, or moving from place to place etc. I must draw it or something let me see if I can make it in here with what I hace ok here it goes:

    Knights
    O-O---O--O----O-OOO---O

    Undead
    -O--OOO-O---O----O-O--O

    Minotaur
    OOOOOO---O------O-----O

    With the "O" meaning a battle, and the "-" means resting, ehre you can see each race has it's own plan, or ins involved in a certain way to the plot(Recommended), or even, not related and all and all you could be doing is basicly explaining the world by showing that every race is busy on their own. Ofcourse this type of story mgiht seem pointless to many people because it doesnt follow the Begin-Climax-End structure and people are very dumb, so they will flame what they can't understand.(We all do that, no exceptions). Ofcourse this will require more heroes if each race is separated from the other or a few ones, if the same hero happens to be leading different races like human-dwarves-high elves, other minotaur-orc-barbarians, this is different from making a faction because just shows the mercenary side of the hores on etheria, something you saw in WBC3 been able to pick different races to fight on the campaing and doing jobs for Lord Bane, the kngihts, the empire, any kind of elves etc.

    The other is have the player make 1-2-3 heroes each "good, bad, neutral" and follow a single line where you mix when to sue each hero, and which races comes to play, just like WBC1 did, where you first played as the humans, the the dwarves or orcs, I think elves too? I don't remember that well sicne it's been forever.

    Like this:

    K-K-K-HE-HE-HE-HE-D-D-D-D-K-K-K-M-M-M-M-U-U-U-K-HE-D-M And in the end choose which race you want for the ENDZ.

    Thats all I can think of right now, please discuss and I know I have bad typing skills, and I might sound rude or harsh sometimes, I never ment to harm someone, so I'm very sorry if I did.

  10. #110
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    a "quote" pissing contest
    You have no respect for a discussion, which means you have no respect for your own words. No wonder you were rude and couldn't face your mistakes.
    Proper formations would be nice
    Don't we have them already? I never used them tho.
    Asking a lot, but maybe proper units?
    I'm against it, it will simplify the whole game. Also, it will make it less of an RPG because single units (that suppose to be characters) will lose value. Command radius effects and spells will also probably require remaking, and that's a big portion of the mechanics.

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